Fender Tone Master FR-10 and FR-12 "FRFR" cabs

[Lysander]

Hissgate is generally "I run tests with an oscilloscope at whisper volumes 97x more than I actually play guitar" problem.

Oh, in this particular case, hiss is absolutely audible I spent time tracking the issue down on my FR-12 because it drove me insane at bedroom levels.

There's really no excuse for a Class-D amplifier manufactured in 2024 having a noise floor of 34 dBA.

And NO ONE at Fender is going to say anything about it publicly I am betting. It is absolutely not perfect but all things considered; it works quite well.

Yeah... which is sad. Fender apparently considers this enough of an issue to "factory mod" the FR line with expensive Burr-Brown opamps, but not enough of an issue to do right by existing customers.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Oh, in this particular case, hiss is absolutely audible I spent time tracking the issue down on my FR-12 because it drove me insane at bedroom levels.

There's really no excuse for a Class-D amplifier manufactured in 2024 having a noise floor of 34 dBA.



Yeah... which is sad. Fender apparently considers this enough of an issue to "factory mod" the FR line with expensive Burr-Brown opamps, but not enough of an issue to do right by existing customers.

Don't play at bedroom levels. Issue resolved

 

[LScottK]

Or, you could just buy a V2 preamp from Archangel. It sounds great, gets rid of the hiss, protects against phantom power frying the factory stock preamp, optimizes the EQ, smooths the crossover between the 12" and horn driver. There's a lot to like, and installation of the new board is really easy. But it does add $100 ($120 for higher end components) to the overall cost. My FR10 is small, light, easy to put in my car for band practice, it's plenty loud and hangs with our drummer without breaking a sweat. I am not a metal player, but our band gets loud enough that last practice I wished that I had brought my musicians ear plugs. My FR10 is a lot easier to lug about than my PXM-12MP. All this being said, I do get not wanting to pay extra for a product that should have all of these things out of the box. But to each their own. We all use what works for us.

 

[mbenigni]

I will also add that program music is not great through these. So they are definitely a cabinet that favors guitar tones. For all that is worth.

Are they "FR enough" to bridge the gap for synths and samples ("trumpets in my 4x12")? For me that's really the whole point. If it only sounds good as a guitar cab... well, I've got guitar cabs.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Are they "FR enough" to bridge the gap for synths and samples ("trumpets in my 4x12")? For me that's really the whole point. If it only sounds good as a guitar cab... well, I've got guitar cabs.

They are. One addendum to my "review" of their program music capabilities. I was not aware of the (actual) flat settings as measured by WKS at the FAS forum (I believe he did it?). So they could be better for music playback (that isn't guitar) than what my initials findings were because everything at noon isn't flat with the existing preamp design. Because we definitely all need something else to obsess over in the spec sheet vs. actually playing guitar

 

[JiveTurkey]

Or, you could just buy a V2 preamp from Archangel. It sounds great, gets rid of the hiss, protects against phantom power frying the factory stock preamp, optimizes the EQ, smooths the crossover between the 12" and horn driver. There's a lot to like, and installation of the new board is really easy. But it does add $100 ($120 for higher end components) to the overall cost. My FR10 is small, light, easy to put in my car for band practice, it's plenty loud and hangs with our drummer without breaking a sweat. I am not a metal player, but our band gets loud enough that last practice I wished that I had brought my musicians ear plugs. My FR10 is a lot easier to lug about than my PXM-12MP. All this being said, I do get not wanting to pay extra for a product that should have all of these things out of the box. But to each their own. We all use what works for us.

I'm coming up on the list

 

[LScottK]

I'm coming up on the list

I think you'll love the upgrade. I certainly did.

 

[mbenigni]

It certainly sounds like ~$100 well spent. Do I understand correctly that this board can be used in either the FR12 or FR10? Or do adjustments need to be made to the crossover circuit to compensate for 10" vs. 12"?

I've yet to encounter either speaker "in the wild". I'd love to be able to compare the FR12 and FR10 (and stock vs. hiss-corrected versions for that matter) in person, but I doubt that will ever happen.

 

[CrazyD]

I finally got my FR12 a couple of weeks ago, and there is a small hiss.
Volume doesn't influence the hiss, but
- setting the cut to 2-3 makes it dead quiet.
- setting the treble to +6 really pushes the hiss really bad. (will not do this)

That said, the hiss is a little more than my monitor speakers but less than my normal setup (Orange Pedalbaby/Orange 2x12)
Yesterday I used it the first time in band context, and what should I say...I am sold! :-) The sound is not that aggressive as my other setup and just fits great into the band overall sound. Really enjoying it...

 

[three_eyed_otter]

I finally got my FR12 a couple of weeks ago, and there is a small hiss.
Volume doesn't influence the hiss, but
- setting the cut to 2-3 makes it dead quiet.
- setting the treble to +6 really pushes the hiss really bad. (will not do this)

That said, the hiss is a little more than my monitor speakers but less than my normal setup (Orange Pedalbaby/Orange 2x12)
Yesterday I used it the first time in band context, and what should I say...I am sold! :-) The sound is not that aggressive as my other setup and just fits great into the band overall sound. Really enjoying it...

What IR did you use with it?

Have a good one,

3EO

 

[LScottK]

It certainly sounds like ~$100 well spent. Do I understand correctly that this board can be used in either the FR12 or FR10? Or do adjustments need to be made to the crossover circuit to compensate for 10" vs. 12"?

I've yet to encounter either speaker "in the wild". I'd love to be able to compare the FR12 and FR10 (and stock vs. hiss-corrected versions for that matter) in person, but I doubt that will ever happen.

The V2 preamp will work in either the FR10 or FR12 with no modifications or changes. One size fits all.

 

[LScottK]

The thread on the Fractal Forum has a lot of information on the V2 preamp. Check out the first post, found here:

Fender FR-12 preamp mod : The Hissterectomy

Edit 3/20/24: The 1200+ following posts hacking the FR series preamps turned into a plug and play replacement preamp for the FR-10/12 that solves the hiss problem.. and has several other major design improvements... named the Archangel V2. If you are just getting here and trying to get on the...

forum.fractalaudio.com

There is loads of info on the first post.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Fix for Fender's failure; incoming

 

[the-trooper]

Fix for Fender's failure; incoming

Boss is releasing their version?

 

[Humberd]

Hi, I have a fr12 and got right after they came out from fender. Didn't have the hiss issue and it sounded great. After a few months I started getting noise issues like a speaker rattle when I would dig into it, I thought it was having user error with my Helix and high cut settings. It seems to be getting worse like high pitch rattle or vibration. I also recently picked up a Tone Master Pro and it's making similar noise. Volume set 2-3 all else at noon . Any one else have this experience?
Don

 

[usphotographer]

Just out of curiosity, can anybody explain to me the markings around the control knobs on the FR12/FR10. I never really paid attention to it before as I adjust everything by ear anyway, but if I wanted to write down the exact settings that I see according the the notches and numbers nothing seems to make sense. The Volume and Cut controls have 11 tick marks but are numbered 1-12 so shouldn't they read 1-11 instead since there are only 11 tick marks? Or if the first tick mark itself is actually zero and 1 actually starts in the space immediately after the first tick mark (which would be logical) then the last tick mark should be 10 should it not? The Treble, Mid, and Bass have 11 tick marks total but yet are numbered -6 through +6. So if the center dot is 0, null, or flat like an EQ then shouldn't the tick marks read -5 through +5? Or is the center dot over Treble, Mid, and Bass considered both +1 and -1? I looked at all my other amps, eight of them, and they all make logical sense with the way they are marked but the FR series makes me scratch my head a bit.

 

[JiveTurkey]

Posted this at FAS. This preamp is fucking KILLER.

Received the preamp today. Just swapped it out. Took just a few minutes. This thing is fucking stupendous. Yes I am in the honeymoon phase. But this thing is clear, punchy AF and PRO across the board. Highly recommended. It's nice to be able to put the knobs in sensible positions for flat vs. the idiotic 3.2, 2.9, 4.1, 0, 3.7 or wtf they had to be with the stock preamp. I was going to gig my Stealth and new 112s on Friday but I think I am using the FR12 instead. Decisions decisions! Great work Liam \m/

 

[CrazyD]

What IR did you use with it?

Have a good one,

3EO

Actually, I used a couple of different ones, it made no difference as the FR12 really reproduces the sound very nicely
I use mainly IRs from ML Sound Lab, Orange and Freidman cabs, or even now the new cabs included in the Helix.
They all sounded great! :-)

Posted this at FAS. This preamp is fucking KILLER.

Received the preamp today. Just swapped it out. Took just a few minutes. This thing is fucking stupendous. Yes I am in the honeymoon phase. But this thing is clear, punchy AF and PRO across the board. Highly recommended. It's nice to be able to put the knobs in sensible positions for flat vs. the idiotic 3.2, 2.9, 4.1, 0, 3.7 or wtf they had to be with the stock preamp. I was going to gig my Stealth and new 112s on Friday but I think I am using the FR12 instead. Decisions decisions! Great work Liam \m/

You got me hooked...I went to FAS Forum and read deeply into it. Gues what? I am on the waiting list