Tonex, ended up sucking for me.

[SKU]

I tried it in my younger days. Managed a music store, taught guitar, and gigged 150+ nights a year. Way too much work for way too little money, and this was long before the internet so there wasn't even the option of being the condescending, hot shit "I do this for a living" know-it-all.

Never been there but I I imagine it must be less glamorous after a certain age unless you make it. These days, there's no more making it in that sense, I guess.

In any case my first post was meant to touch on the idea that it's more about the playing and less about the number of amps and cabs. And for the second, yes, I do believe that buying a digital box thinking that you'll get the same as the guy who paid in different ways by being forced to use an amp is impossible. And by getting the same and paying I don't mean anything related to tone. All effort is recompensed whether that is being forced to use one amp and knowing it inside and out, having to carry heavy gear, spending 10 hours of day practicing when other people are out dating, living the musician life and getting through hard times when you could do something else etc.
And I also believe that someone who is comfortable is most areas can't really do music. Something needs to give ...

 

[[Nathan]]

Christoph Kemper, himself, once described how the Kemper works. In short it has two or three base amp models with multiple variables - more than what we see on the interface. The profiling process tries to fit one of the base models to the test tone by varying the variables.
I suppose this is what Tonex does but applied to a model with more variables. Maybe Kemper works the same way but it came out long before the "AI" craze.
The document I linked, by Cliff, tells, tongue in cheek, the same thing.

NAM/ToneX/Tonocracy/Proteus / Anything pytorch/tensorflow related are creating neural models from scratch based on the source audio vs the amped audio

Kemper/QC (I believe) are using some kind of base amp/distortion models through a series of EQ filters and secret sauce EQ matching.

 

[DrewJD82]

I used to believe in all that starving/tortured artist shit, too. It was a reliable excuse for me to not get my shit together. Then when I got my shit together, I could afford to buy the gear that allowed me to make the music in my head and since I wasn’t stressing over finding $25 to make rent, I had a lot more headspace for being creative.

 

[Frodebro]

I used to believe in all that starving/tortured artist shit, too. It was a reliable excuse for me to not get my shit together. Then when I got my shit together, I could afford to buy the gear that allowed me to make the music in my head and since I wasn’t stressing over finding $25 to make rent, I had a lot more headspace for being creative.

I think most of us tend to think that way when we're younger and dumber, like it's not "authentic" unless you check all the right boxes. Then you grow up, life kicks you in the balls a few hundred times, and you realize that your youthful idealism was basically a steaming kettle of bullshit.

 

[Mongillo19]

I used to believe in all that starving/tortured artist shit, too. It was a reliable excuse for me to not get my shit together. Then when I got my shit together, I could afford to buy the gear that allowed me to make the music in my head and since I wasn’t stressing over finding $25 to make rent, I had a lot more headspace for being creative.

I'm 100ing your comment not because I've ever done this but because the idea of having to struggle to get the best results is ancient thinking and often detrimental.

I don't need to be homeless to appreciate having a roof over my head nor would I ever suggest someone struggle unnecessarily as it will result in the most pure or appreciated results.

Work smarter not harder or whatever

 

[DrewJD82]

I'm 100ing your comment not because I've ever done this but because the idea of having to struggle to get the best results is ancient thinking and often detrimental.

I don't need to be homeless to appreciate having a roof over my head nor would I ever suggest someone struggle unnecessarily as it will result in the most pure or appreciated results.

Work smarter not harder or whatever

There are certainly aspects of struggle that can offer someone having been through struggle a wider perspective on things, gratitude most often, but I’ve also seen that move in the complete opposite direction and people become so surmounted by their struggles they never move anywhere in life but barely above water, financially, socially, mentally, etc.

I think for me it came more from not being motivated by money to begin with, which lent itself to a young, insecure Drew looking for an identity in my early 20’s and easily relating to the tortured artist thing. At that point in my life, the torturing was 100% self inflicted.

 

[Mongillo19]

There are certainly aspects of struggle that can offer someone having been through struggle a wider perspective on things, gratitude most often, but I’ve also seen that move in the complete opposite direction and people become so surmounted by their struggles they never move anywhere in life but barely above water, financially, socially, mentally, etc.

I think for me it came more from not being motivated by money to begin with, which lent itself to a young, insecure Drew looking for an identity in my early 20’s and easily relating to the tortured artist thing. At that point in my life, the torturing was 100% self inflicted.

Oh for sure!

Not everything should be easy imo but it doesn't have to be unnecessarily hard just for the sake of difficulty. But what do I know

 

[Frodebro]

Oh for sure!

Not everything should be easy imo but it doesn't have to be unnecessarily hard just for the sake of difficulty. But what do I know

Life is hard enough as it is without going out of your way to make things even more difficult. I gigged a rack mount tube rig back in the day, this was long before Fractal existed. I wasn't suffering for my art, I was suffering for lack of a more compact, lighter rig that could get the job done. They didn't exist then. Now they do, and I'm not humping a hundred pounds of gear around if I don't have to.

 

[SKU]

Not trying to say that having unresolved issues automatically helps someone being a better player.

 

[pipelineaudio]

There are certainly aspects of struggle that can offer someone having been through struggle a wider perspective on things, gratitude most often, but I’ve also seen that move in the complete opposite direction and people become so surmounted by their struggles they never move anywhere in life but barely above water, financially, socially, mentally, etc.

I think for me it came more from not being motivated by money to begin with, which lent itself to a young, insecure Drew looking for an identity in my early 20’s and easily relating to the tortured artist thing. At that point in my life, the torturing was 100% self inflicted.

Some health issues in some ways made the decision for me, but I very consciously chose to completely live audio engineering 24/7 knowing full well that I would NEVER have financial security of any kind and that normal, everyday spending tasks or even having a credit card would forever be impossible for me.

Early on I watched where the dabblers were and where I really wanted to be, and except for Trustafarians who had no effort money coming in, there was really no other way I could see getting the experience, skills and opportunity. But I certainly wouldn't recommend it without really realizing what it entailed.

Luckily, I was able to spend any time away from the studio in a semi professional BMX career, and that was what brought in the food to eat for the most part and certainly helped with my health, stamina and determination, not to mention many friends from both worlds.

I always enjoyed hearing from the "starving artists" who "gave up so much for their music" like: Not being able to attend burning man after their two week las vegas vacation this year, missing out on the superbowl this year, or only getting to go to 12 conferences and trade shows instead of 13, etc...

 

[JiveTurkey]

Luckily, I was able to spend any time away from the studio in a semi professional BMX career, and that was what brought in the food to eat for the most part and certainly helped with my health, stamina and determination, not to mention many friends from both worlds.

^This sounds like a blast \m/

 

[SKU]

Emotions go whoooosh

 

[NotApplicable]

While NAM is more accurate than Tonex, that isn't the most important advantage. NAM is an open format. If you buy Tonex captures, they'll only ever work in IK products. Imagine the backlash if someone released a modeling app or pedal today that only supported their own proprietary IRs.

TONEX has been reverse engineered pretty much since its release. Captures are encrypted, but the scheme and the key are known.

 

[Elric]

While NAM is more accurate than Tonex, that isn't the most important advantage. NAM is an open format. If you buy Tonex captures, they'll only ever work in IK products. Imagine the backlash if someone released a modeling app or pedal today that only supported their own proprietary IRs.

FWIW, I totally see the advantage to standardization and fully support new development/plugins/hardware supporting NAM as a format standard similar to wavs for IRs. I use some proprietary IRs (DynaCab, Two Notes) but absolutely see the value in a standard and use WAVs most of the time (York Audio for the win).

That said, I don't think I would call NAM much of a standard (yet) since we do not even have one piece of hardware (yet) that directly supports it, although my hope is that we will in the future. Multiple plugs (NAM, Genome, Tonocracy) supporting it is promising, though.

Also, wrt to the ToneX pedal, point still stands that as AIAB pedal, it completely slays and easily justifies its price tag. I don't think if I needed an AIAB pedal with lots of sounds today that I would hesitate on ToneX for any of the above.

I think the big disappointment for us gear hounds is that it could have been a world beater if IK had crushed the software side of it. So it left a crazy amount of potential on the table. Upside is that'll leave room for someone to potentially get it right w/ NAM as an open standard.

 

[Orvillain]

Kemper/QC (I believe) are using some kind of base amp/distortion models through a series of EQ filters and secret sauce EQ matching.

Which is why they don't sound as good as the former options! I'd take NAM/Tonocracy/ToneX over the Kemper and QC any day of the week.

 

[Boudoir Guitar]

Oh for sure!

Not everything should be easy imo but it doesn't have to be unnecessarily hard just for the sake of difficulty. But what do I know

Playing guitar, and the technique of good tone production, is more than enough struggle.

 

[NightWalker]

NAM/ToneX/Tonocracy/Proteus / Anything pytorch/tensorflow related are creating neural models from scratch based on the source audio vs the amped audio

Kemper/QC (I believe) are using some kind of base amp/distortion models through a series of EQ filters and secret sauce EQ matching.

this guy is getting an awesome sound with the Kemper?

 

[Mongillo19]

omg the Kemper sucks.i told this guitar player that kempersucks,but how he is getting an awesome sound with the Kemper?

Trying to find where the person you replied to said the Kemper sucks in that comment

Seemed to just be some solid information

 

[NightWalker]

Trying to find where the person you replied to said the Kemper sucks in that comment

Seemed to just be some solid information

your right, i will fix my replied to that person

 

[Orvillain]

Trying to find where the person you replied to said the Kemper sucks in that comment

Seemed to just be some solid information

He just gets butt hurt when people don't like the Kemper. Proper fanboi. You'll notice he only ever laugh reacts my posts that put the Kemper last. Never actually engages with what I say; particularly when I post this article:


He hasn't got the stones for it.